ALBANY, New York — Gov. Kathy Hochul wants to prove she can be a strong top of the ticket this year to sweep down-ballot Democrats into office and help her party regain control of the House.

The stakes are high for the moderate Democrat, who took office five years ago Monday and has worked to build an anemic state party apparatus into something more formidable. Yet she must also contend with the success of candidates backed by the Democratic Socialists of America who have defeated institutional Democrats this year — victories that stand to upend the establishment’s plans to compete in purple areas of New York.

Unlike some moderate Democrats who are trying to halt the socialists’ advance, Hochul has taken a big-tent view of the party.

“I think the party is broad. It’s vast, but there are still a lot of people outside our urban areas who would view themselves as more traditional Democrats in the sense of FDR and Kennedy and Carter and Clinton and Obama and Biden,” she told POLITICO in an interview Monday. “But if, in certain districts, the democratic socialist brand is more appealing, and they think it stands for something that they want to support, my job is to make it all work out. I work with everybody, whoever the voters want.”

Hochul sat down with POLITICO Monday to discuss her five years in office, how she’s pushing for House Democrats and the role New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani will play in her reelection bid.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity. 

What has been your biggest challenge in the last five years?

Overcoming inertia here in Albany. There have been so many times when I want to just be, you know, take bold action and do what’s right, and not have institutional opposition to so many of our grand plans. I’ve had to work through that. Overall, I’d say the biggest challenge is just having to navigate, and then also to have breakthroughs, and that sometimes leads to conflict.

I don’t mind conflict if the result is better for New Yorkers than the status quo. So I think it’s partially my impatience and my desire to shake up the status quo — felt sometimes it was running into a brick wall, and then I had to dismantle that brick wall.

Who’s to blame for that institutional inertia at this point? Is it part of the climate?

There’s all kinds of lobbyists and advocates and interest groups and legislators with specific agendas, and it’s the whole ecosystem of Albany. There have been dramatic improvements since it was labeled probably the most — what did they call it?

The most dysfunctional in the country. 

The most dysfunctional in the country, and I think the two [legislative] leaders that we have now have worked hard to eliminate that reputation. But beyond just elected officials, there’s just a lot of institutional, strong interests out there that conspire against changing the status quo, and I am hardwired to drive for change. I’m not complaining. I did it, but if I thought about what was a challenge, that was a challenge. But we’re overcoming it. We have overcome it in many specific instances.

I know the car insurance changes were part of that frustration. Anything else kind of fell under that inertia?

Anything we wanted to do with the State Education Department. We wanted to change how we teach literacy, and it was 20 years of a debunked theory that other states had walked away from, but it was not walked away from here.

My cell phone ban — that was not embraced by institutional interests here, and there’s organizations that at first were very resistant. Teachers were on board, teachers came on board, and I was happy with that. But there’s just the administrative roles, and the parents were anxious. There’s all sorts of groups representing everybody, and I look at that as one of our greatest accomplishments. That has had the most immediate result, and of anything we could have done, that had the most immediate impact in a positive way.

That was kind of a signature policy, fair to say?

That and overall taking care of families, whether it’s making sure no child goes hungry, there’s not a single child in the state of New York who doesn’t get two out of three meals now provided by the state, breakfast and lunch. That is huge.

That and other tax credits for families have really helped drive down poverty rates among children. Proud of that. Our work in social media has been nation leading, putting in guardrails where there had been none to protect our children. So a lot of it centers around family, whether it’s what’s happening in schools, what’s happening for parents who have to pay the bills, grocery prices, the largest middle-class tax rate cut in 70 years, taking on taxes, taking on utility bills with our utility rebate, taking on costs of groceries with our inflation rebate.

We put $5,000 back in a family’s pocket with covering the school meals for your family of two kids. School meals, $1,000 tax break for children under the age of four, $500 for higher. All this combined to say, I hear you. So I think the number one issue I took on was affordability, but specifically focused on families that are struggling because that was my life story. That was my early, early years, and then, as even a young parent, it’s one income in the house. It was hard, and those experiences have really focused me on my priorities, have driven my priorities because I know that those priorities will help New Yorkers.

Is there anything that you would have done differently looking back on the last five years? Any mistakes, any regrets that you have?

I would say I wish that the rules hadn’t been changed in the process for nominating chief judges. You know, we were trying to really help make history and have the first Latino chief judge. This person had tremendous judicial temperament and passed with flying colors. I was surprised that then the rules were changed in committees here to make it more challenging. So I would say that was frustrating for me. But what would I have done differently? I wish I had won. I wish I had won on that, wish my candidate had been able to get the fair hearing and be successful. But again, a lot of interests conspired against him, and that was probably the one big loss.

Lieutenant governor selections have also been kind of tough.

The selection isn’t tough. You do what [you can] with all the information you have at that moment. You do what you think is right. So the process isn’t flawed. Obviously becoming governor unexpectedly five years ago today required me to have a very, very shortened process to identify an individual that could be supportive. I had a relationship with Brian Benjamin. I thought he was an ideal candidate. I had no idea that charges would be brought and then later dropped against him. How do you foresee that when you’re going through a process and selecting someone? So there’s nothing to change there.

Antonio Delgado. I didn’t know him well. I did not know that loyalty was such a problem for him, or understanding the role is not that of the governor, and he understood later. Probably too late. But I function very well now. Having been lieutenant governor, I would say I’ve been performing lieutenant governor and governor simultaneously, which is why I do what I need to do in the Capitol. I spend a lot of time going out around the state and touching people and listening directly — literally in Rochester the other day, sitting in a diner talking to young people very anxious about data centers. These are the best conversations I have. Just sitting down, randomly starting to have conversations with people, and I learn a lot. I perform both roles for now, and am looking forward to having a new lieutenant governor who understands the role and has tremendous experience in government. I’d say it’s been handicapped not having a number two the way my predecessor had a hardworking number two.

What would you say is the biggest difference between how you’re approaching the job today versus how you initially thought it would go this time five years ago?

I’ve learned that it’s important to build coalitions around that idea. I initially thought if an idea was meritorious, that it would prevail on the merits, and that’s not how it works here.

Building coalitions, outside support, doing a lot more legwork, even on the cell phones, for example. I took a year to go around and build support for it and overcome the opposition from anxious parents or school boards that didn’t want to have opposition from their community. They just wanted to be left alone. But me spending the time and then listening more to young people about how they were struggling, it made me feel even more emboldened in the cause, brought people along with me.

I wanted to be bold and ambitious on housing. I wanted to overcome years and years of resistance to building more housing because I knew it was a huge driver of expenses for families, young people being denied the opportunity to have that first home, if ever. Maybe they’ll afford a decent apartment sharing with five people from college. So that first [housing] plan was bold. It was rejected because we didn’t have a chance to explain ourselves, and it was weaponized politically. That became an issue in a place like Long Island — government-paid-for literature going to everybody’s house, showing giant skyscrapers in a nice little multi-million dollar neighborhood. So, those are things that we couldn’t have foreseen in our first months on the job when I put together this bold agenda. But round two, the next year, we were very successful. So that was a learning curve there, but definitely have overcome it. And everything I set out to do in this year’s budget, for example, many of which I was told were dead on arrival, they all happened. We know the path.

Has the Democratic Party in the last five years gone too far to the left for the comfort of many voters — the very same voters you’ll need this year? 

I have a broad perspective of the Democratic Party in this state, having been in every corner many times and understanding that the politics really is local.

Someone who gets elected in a particular Congressional district in New York City would never get elected in the North Country, or the Southern Tier, or perhaps even Western New York. I understand that. My job as the leader of the party in New York is to allow the locals to decide who they want as their candidates, and be as supportive as I can.

[That] does not mean I embrace a particular philosophy, and it doesn’t mean the rest of the party, outside of certain districts, should be labeled with that either. But it doesn’t mean that there aren’t people in a district that want a certain brand of candidate and a label. And I’m not going to stand here as a leader of the party [and] say no. I need to win in November. Let’s stay focused on the prize. It is taking back our country, one Congressional seat at a time, and that’s why I’ve invested a lot of political capital, and fundraising time and effort, and calling candidates and helping them work through the challenges.

I was that candidate in 2011 who took a shot at a longshot run. People said I would never win, but I knew there was a path because people were fed up with what was happening in Washington. Medicare was under attack. I knew this could win in a Republican district. I didn’t have any help from the state party. My predecessor literally sent someone to Buffalo, my home in Hamburg, to tell me not to run, because the state party would not be there for me, and the national party [the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee] was not there for a long time. So I said I’m not letting that happen to people. [The] state party should be a vehicle to help all of our candidates who get through a process selected by primary or designee, as I was in a special election. I feel really good about the efforts we’ve undertaken.

I think the party is broad. It’s vast, but there are still a lot of people outside our urban areas who would view themselves as more traditional Democrats in the sense of FDR and Kennedy and Carter and Clinton and Obama and Biden. But if, in certain districts, the democratic socialist brand is more appealing, and they think it stands for something that they want to support, my job is to make it all work out. I work with everybody, whoever the voters want. My job is to make it work out.

Why do you think so many younger voters are choosing a socialist candidate, or are open to socialism? We’ve seen polling show that they’re rejecting capitalism. 

The world is changing so rapidly around them. It’s a frightening time. You don’t know whether AI is going to take a job that you were told you should go to school for and study STEM and study computer science and get a degree that’ll position you for the rest of your life. The rug has been pulled out from under a lot of young people for a variety of reasons. They didn’t ask for the pandemic. Everything got so expensive. Their lives were disrupted. If they had little kids, the little kids were learning from home, and they’re trying to keep it all together while they have their jobs. Mom stayed home.

This has been a wildly disruptive time for young people starting out, whether just getting out of school or a young family. And there’s a lot of anxiety. Will the jobs they thought were going to be there? Why can’t I afford to get an apartment? My parents were able to get an apartment. My parents could even buy a home in some cases. Why is that American dream on hold for me? I didn’t do anything wrong. I did everything I was asked to do by society.

I feel that deeply as a parent who sees young people struggling like that, and why even child care, which was an issue when I was having babies, why is it still a problem today? Why can’t we as a society, do more to help lift this burden off of families? Why can’t we do more to stand up for them against high utility bills? Why can’t we be supportive of them? I have incredible empathy for people who are just feeling very unsettled and anxious about the future, and I think that drives them to listen to voices that are offering more. But at the end of the day, I feel the same concern. I’m a moderate Democrat who is responding to their same anxieties, and maybe they don’t see that, but that is hardcore what I’m all about — fighting for families, reducing the burdens they have on childcare and school lunches and cost of living.

Our interests are more aligned than people believe. I don’t think it’s a socialism versus capitalism debate. Most people are not thinking that. The vast majority of New York Democrats are not caught up in that struggle, and they’re just not. They don’t have the luxury of even having those thoughts. They’re trying to pay the bills at the end of the month and see whether or not their job is going to be there, or are they going to be replaced by AI?

Do you expect the mayor to be campaigning with you? Have you talked to him about campaigning? Will he be helpful on the trail?

I think he’ll be helpful. Like I said, I really carved out a very different path in this role. People understand I get the job done. I’m here to get a job done, not to look for glory for myself, or get into fights with the mayor of New York and show I can win the battle because I’m bigger state government. It’s never been about battling egos here. So many people have told me they appreciate — whether or not they support the mayor — they appreciate the fact that I understand my role is to make New York City successful. That’s why I am making the relationship work. As is he — he is working with me to build a relationship where we’re both putting New York City first, and that is something that this state has not seen, perhaps ever. If you go back through history, there’s always conflict between the governor and the mayor, almost universally. I wanted to end that, and we did with Bill de Blasio, Eric Adams, Zohran Mamdani.

How eager are you to prove Nancy Pelosi wrong this year after her comments from four years ago saying that New York didn’t come through for House Democrats?

Forgot about it. Don’t even think about it. I didn’t have the luxury of time in ‘22 to build out a state party. I inherited a skeleton. I took two solid years to bulk it up. In 2024, I already proved that I’m a leader, and I know how to win races. We won five out of seven battleground races with money that I raised, opening up 42 field offices, hiring an additional 100 staffers, and that’s how we win. So I already established I know how to win. Give me two years. Now I’ve got four. We’re going to do it again.

Thanks for your time. 

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